Donovan McNabb is a jerk!

[raceannouncer]

kt:  my original point was to defend the notion that racing drivers ARE indeed athletes...of course, as with every topic and opinion, there are always notable exceptions.

I stated in an earlier post that I would not be drawn into a trap regarding the "Rapid Roman" and I still wish to make it stay that way...For me, results count--and Evan's numbers speak for themselves...you will NEVER read in my post(s) anything about him which would degrade his legacy, at least, never intentionally.  While I now agree with your observation that I used too broad a brush in this particular thread, call me guilty! all my life I have bristled whenever I read or hear this subject brought up--it is insulting to the sport to brand it as being non-athletic; especially when it is started by more traditional "stick-and-ball" type of individuals--and furthered by their media cronies who make huge gobs of money to "play in their games"; finally, as far as my "ivory tower" is concerned--I dispute your opinion on that I own one, for I will NEVER make enough money in my ENTIRE lifetime to even start building a tiny one.  I would hazard a guess that your ivory tower is well on it's way to completion--at least, compared to the one I don't currently have (However, I might be wrong in your view on that as well) G'night!

[The Race Report]

racing drivers ARE indeed athletes

Gee, Paz. Next you'll be saying that racing announcers are athletes.

[Gomerpyle]

If you announce at Shang 2, you better be. Thats a long way down to Victory Lane and back. I hear George is putting in a "Firemen's Pole" for them. That should help. Ron Hills can use it too.

[raceannouncer]

racing drivers ARE indeed athletes

Gee, Paz. Next you'll be saying that racing announcers are athletes.

will NEVER happen!!!

YOU, of all people, should know that--just like video camera-toting individuals, aren't either...

[kt]

kt:  my original point was to defend the notion that racing drivers ARE indeed athletes...of course, as with every topic and opinion, there are always notable exceptions.

I stated in an earlier post that I would not be drawn into a trap regarding the "Rapid Roman" and I still wish to make it stay that way...For me, results count--and Evan's numbers speak for themselves...you will NEVER read in my post(s) anything about him which would degrade his legacy, at least, never intentionally.  While I now agree with your observation that I used too broad a brush in this particular thread, call me guilty! all my life I have bristled whenever I read or hear this subject brought up--it is insulting to the sport to brand it as being non-athletic; especially when it is started by more traditional "stick-and-ball" type of individuals--and furthered by their media cronies who make huge gobs of money to "play in their games"; finally, as far as my "ivory tower" is concerned--I dispute your opinion on that I own one, for I will NEVER make enough money in my ENTIRE lifetime to even start building a tiny one.  I would hazard a guess that your ivory tower is well on it's way to completion--at least, compared to the one I don't currently have (However, I might be wrong in your view on that as well) G'night!

Mike: I understand that you were defending racecar drivers as being athletes. In your haste to declare smokers as non-athletes you directly dissed Dick Trickle. I quote: "Calling a driver like Trickle an athlete who chain-smoked is laughable and ridiculous at best..May he rest in peace but Dick's numbers are sadly weak- no Championships AND no wins (0 for 303)--PUHL-EASE!

When I asked "Do you know anything about Dick Trickle?........You answered: "I know he loved racing and was cut from the same cloth as "Special K"--They both would race anytime, anywhere! Am I missing something else???".............Well yes, yes you are. Here are a few more statistics you failed to mention/list:


An estimated 1200 victories. Known as "The Winningist Driver in America." No driver in history has won more races than Dick Trickle.

2 ASA National Championships

7 ARTGO Challenge Series Championships

32 ASA National Victories

68 ARTGO Challenge Series Victories
 
6 ALL PRO Victories

2 SW Tour Victories

2 USAC Victories

2 BGN Victories......One of which was at  Darlington where it proved "NOT too tough to tame" for a 55 year old Dick Trickle in the twilight of his career.

A victory in the "Winston Open".

Test Driver for famed IROC series.

Served as mentor to Mark Martin, Rusty and Kenny Wallace, Alan Kulwicki and is linked to just about every other racecar driver coming out of the state of Wisconsin since then.

.......If I were to name the three greatest short track drivers in AUTO RACING HISTORY, my list would include Richie Evans, Dick Trickle, and Steve Kinser. I personally don't know Steve Kinser but I can tell you that the love for Richie wasn't just based on his record. It was the way he lived his life, the way he interacted with fans, and the way he mentored dozens of other racers. Richie Evans and Dick Trickle were cut from the same cloth. In fact, they were good friends. Dick Trickle holds the same kind of reverance that Richie Evans holds, and that is no way down playing the universal love for Richie.

.....I was not trying to lure you into a trap concerning Richie Evans.  You said "for me, results count--and Evan's numbers speak for themselves."  Well, here are some numbers listed for Dick Trickle that "speak for themselves", and in some ways, dwarf Richie's numbers. What I want you to understand is that when you disrespect Dick Trickle, in some ways, to some people, you are doing something just as bad as disrespecting Richie Evans would be. THAT is what has me seeing red........Dick Trickle was far more than a one-line running joke on SportsCenter. I was fortunate and priveliged to get to know Dick over the years, have crewed for him, stood in Victory Lane with him and of course, threw back a few ice cold PBR's with him also.

.....The term "Ivory Tower" has a couple different meanings, none of which has anything to do with the size of our bankrolls. I would suggest you look it up, Wikipedia has it pretty well covered.

[jimmy consi]

soooo after reading this and doing my own observations mcnabb is correct in saying that race car drivers are not athletes! I mean A SIXTY YEAR OLD MAN THAT CHAIN SMOKES CAN RACE CARS AND BE GREAT AT IT, MEANS YOU DONT HAVE TO BE PHYICALLY FIT TO DO IT! which means you don't have to be  athletic to race a car, matter of fact it seems when athlete's become old and nonathletic is when they turn to auto racing. the only thing that i see that race car drivers have is big balls to do what they do!! and i respect that!

[Nate Stevens]

Physical fitness/athleticism is a component in auto racing, but not necessarily an important one.  I feel there is actually an inverse relationship between winning performance and its importance.  A confident driver in an excellent performing car has a relatively low physical burden.  On the other hand, driving a poor handling car while anxious, nervous or upset can be greatly difficult.  I include the emotional state of the driver because I feel the physical demand is largely psychosomatic.  I think anyone that has been uncomfortable in a racecar can relate to what I am saying here.

The argument about the importance of athleticism in winning races in Nascar can easily be answered by comparing today's drivers to the drivers of 30-40 years ago.  I feel safe to say that the athletic ability of an average Nascar Cup driver today surpasses the most athletic of that time.  Yet they were under a higher physical burden from: higher Gs due to higher speeds, more work and stress due to less stable cars and higher physical strain from less supportive seats.

Why is athleticism expected of Cup level drivers today if it isn't going to win races?  I feel it is the higher expectations of the rest of the field.  30 years ago it wasn't uncommon for 15 or less cars to finish a race.  Today it isn't uncommon for more than 15 cars to finish on the lead lap.  I guarantee that the person who crosses the line the last car on the lead lap after 500 miles is completely exhausted.

[chit pants]

I'm by no means a McNabb fan but he's right. Sometimes the truth hurts, especially to passionate race fans.

[frontstretch]

Challenge. He said Jimmy Johnson was not an athlete.

[chit pants]

Challenge. He said Jimmy Johnson was not an athlete.

My wife runs marathons 3-4 times a year and drives a car every day. She's not an athlete, she's just a mom.

[Gomerpyle]

I do believe the drivers from 30 to 40 years ago were a lot tougher then the drivers today. No cool suits or cool fresh air helmets. No Lazy Boy car seats. No head rest to lay your head against. AND THEY RACED 500 MILES IN THE AFTERNOON IN THE SOUTH. Then they drove themselves home.

[Groundpounder]

I do believe the drivers from 30 to 40 years ago were a lot tougher then the drivers today. No cool suits or cool fresh air helmets. No Lazy Boy car seats. No head rest to lay your head against. AND THEY RACED 500 MILES IN THE AFTERNOON IN THE SOUTH. Then they drove themselves home.

That may be true, but Ken Stabler, Fran Tarkenton, and all the rest of the old school quarterbacks were a hell of a lot tougher than the ones playing that position today.

[Nate Stevens]

Toughness isn't really a physical thing, it is more of a mental thing.

[raceannouncer]

KT:  OK, you win! You've schooled me on Mr. Trickle--and yes, there were many things on that list that I was unaware of.  So, now I admit I'm wrong! There, I said it; happy now?

I get all torqued off when race car drivers are not considered athletes; at least not in the traditional sense...Maybe it's because they're sitting all the time!  There is also a ring of truth regarding how drivers "back in the day" did not have power steering, cool suits and the like. That's an argument that, just like this one, will have passionate and conflicting views on that, as well!  I would suggest that the huge difference in speed today vs. racing back then plays a big part as well; back then, only those people who were associated with the aviation industry even knew the definition of  "G-Force(s)" and how it affects the human body. 

In my zeal to defend race driver's as athletes, my passion ran much stronger than my thinking process.  I now bow out in disgrace! 

[Groundpounder]

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2013/12/03/jimmie-johnson-donovan-mcnabb-talk-athlete-comments-nascar.html