RaceNewYork

RaceNewYork Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 12:59:27 PM

Title: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 12:59:27 PM: Simple answer to most discussions up here recently: IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO RACE (for whatever reason: gas/diesel race fuel prices too high, entry fee, low payouts, THEN DON'T RACE!!! Same thing goes for other things rules package, dislike of management,track layout & conditions) DON'T RACE--no one is forcing anyone to race--it's your choice! If you wanna play. you gots to pay! I keep asking the same question over and over when I read topics like this and that is: "Where did the silly notion come from that you should be able to make money by competing at local tracks???(shakin' my head") I STILL get NO sensible, reasonable answer!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Gomerpyle on September 10, 2012, 01:00:36 PM: Nobody forces Raceguy to golf, but he keeps trying.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: kt on September 10, 2012, 01:06:43 PM: I repeat, telling the racers to stay home is not a good idea.....Too many of us have already made that choice.......just sayin'
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: dirttrackrocker on September 10, 2012, 01:07:45 PM: I am going to have to agree here.. For those of you that Golf, Hunt, Fish, Ski, etc. How much money do you have wrapped up in your equipment? How much did your last outing cost you? Did anyone pay you when you got back based on your performance? NO!! Racing is an expensive hobby, be thankful that there are sponsors out there that help out and the racetracks actually pay something back. I can't think of any other hobby that does that.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: itchypav on September 10, 2012, 01:11:00 PM: Racing = expensive hobby
Cost - winnings = loss
Time at the track = (usually) fun.
Belief in making money = pipe dream.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Jamesgang on September 10, 2012, 01:14:08 PM: Quote from: kt on September 10, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
I repeat, telling the racers to stay home is not a good idea.....Too many of us have already made that choice.......just sayin'

That ain't no ***** either. Telling a guy who has his whole life invested (Time, Money, time away from family, parties, weddings, fights with Wives on the cost and the time spent, where most friends are made and lost. Where the cost could send your entire family on vacation together in the SUMMER time) Is not a good move.

The list goes on and on. The money COULD be spent anywhere. It's spent on this.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: PEEWEE on September 10, 2012, 01:15:43 PM: WENT TO PLAY DARTS ON SATURDAY MADE 500.00 DARTS COST 80.00 7 YRS AGO
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: bbbr on September 10, 2012, 01:15:54 PM: Mike,

I think the last thing a moderator of this forum needs to do is encourage people who own race cars to stay home. This forum, if I understood correctly, once was for the betterment of local racing. Discussing issues, such as purses, costs of racing, the business of motorsports, etc. is exactly what this place was intended to do.

Occasionally people have opinions that don't agree with each other. There is NOTHING wrong with that. However, the attitude you seem to have taken with your comments and moderation lately is one of "take whatever the speedway says and eat it" or otherwise just shut up. You are not promoting dialogue at all.

No one is racing on the local level to make money. I don't think there is one racer here who is. It boils down to how much money are you going to lose and trying to keep that loss reasonable enough to continue to put the car on the track and provide some entertainment to fans. If there aren't race cars on the track, there aren't fans in the stands. No fans in the stands, we have shopping malls instead of race tracks. That simple.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: yeck22 on September 10, 2012, 01:51:35 PM: This is going to be funny when Race Announcer has to lock down a thread he started! lol
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Openwheeler on September 10, 2012, 01:55:10 PM: Nobody expects to make money racing locally if you do you need to get your head checked but getting gouged all the time and the mentality tracks have of since there is no fans we have to make more money through the gate is the reason many of us don't race anymore and if you give a racer a reason to take a summer off from racing and he can see that there is actually other fun stuff that's a lot less stressful out there then you will lose them for life.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: cheezfriez on September 10, 2012, 01:59:11 PM: not a very smart post mike
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: oldguy on September 10, 2012, 02:06:39 PM: Rule #1. Have fun.
Rule #2. Refer to rule #1.

I can hear Mike's frustration with every complaint about racing.

All the whining, complaining, and general frustration is within all of us. I try not to get caught up in the negative.

See Rule #1.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: moselli on September 10, 2012, 02:10:02 PM: This thread is certain to get a lot of responses. Might as well put mine in....

The cost of racing that Mike brought out is like the crazy uncle that lives in an upstairs bedroom at your home and everyone knows he's there, but if we ignore him and don't talk about him, maybe he won't exist. Unfortunately, sooner or later, we need to deal with the crazy uncle (cost of racing).

Let's face it, technology has changed racing and there is a cost for technology. Each class of racing and each form of racing - dirt and asphalt - has a premium cost in order to compete and move up in class. Many if not all racers aspire to move up to the highest levels and compete against the best drivers. Not all have the economic means to do so, but try anyway and soon find themselves broke.

For some, racing is an addiction and the habit needs to be supported at any cost. For some, racing is a hobby and is balanced with other things in life. As the middle class in this country continues to get squeezed with less disposable income and the cost of fielding a competitive racecar increases, we are going to see fewer cars at the local tracks. Unfortunate situation, but reality none the less.

Ultimately it is not necessary to tell someone to stay home and not race. When the car needs repairs, tires or a new motor and there is no money, it's a done deal.....

Regards,

Moselli
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Shamrock 3x on September 10, 2012, 02:47:33 PM: Attaboys for bbbr and Moselli....and shame on our moderator for even starting such an unnecessary and mean spirited thread!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Casper60 on September 10, 2012, 03:02:12 PM: Here is another extremely simple concept Paz...

Most of us understand we're not in it to make money. At the same time we try to minimize our losses so we can keep coming back every week to get beat up by the promoters at the back gate and put a show on for the fans that pay to see us race. Telling people to stay home is not a wise idea when tracks are already struggling with car counts and the stands aren't as full as they used to be.

You are one of the few people involved in racing who MADE money. Since you can't do that anymore, why not put your car owner hat on and come see how it is on this side of the fence.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Admin on September 10, 2012, 03:02:32 PM: IMHO, Paz is just pointing out some realities....in a very blunt fashion and prolly aimed at folks that do not have a grasp of them yet. Surely not aimed at discouraging EVERYONE, that's how I read it.

Someday, maybe there'll be harmony everywhere...but I can't remember it ever existing in racing. If you aren't fighting with technology it'll be with the cost of technology, and when you get that whipped then you got to deal with someone's good driver talent. Or the economy...or whatever. Racing ain't perfect but if it makes us happy then we should do it. Lord knows my golf game sure don't bring happiness...
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: ask0329 on September 10, 2012, 03:06:13 PM: I wont lie, i've complained about payouts before. Where I find it disheartening is the difference in pay between tracks for the same class. I've come to learn that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem. I could go out and help the track and find a "class sponsor" but I dont. So I've learned to shut my mouth on the topic. All in all I shouldnt complain. On an average night I'll make $30 or lose $16. To go out and race, comradre at the track and all the fun to be had I cannot beat it. My racecar is worth as much as a snowmobile or a boat. We do have a boat but its just a 6 person open bow standard boat. Nothing special. No sleds or wheelers. Racing for us has grown to be a family thing as my step son will be racing go karts very soon. We fish and hunt. Love them both.

I guess what I'm getting at is there is a means to have your cake and eat it to. We race Bi-weekly as I'm not going to lose my house or family over racing. I was told if I found sponsorship for a full season we as a family would do a full season. It hasnt happened yet. If it does thats great. I worked at a local track on saturdays this year and we all suffered. We knew it would be tough going in but the extra money and resume building sure helped. Now that our season is over we've been getting back to the outdoors, camping, fishing and traveling. Its all about balance.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: paintguy on September 10, 2012, 03:48:14 PM: What we must not forget here is that other people collect money (the race track) for us to to engoy our expensive hobbie. So a comparison to other sports or hobbies is allmost comparing apples to oranges
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: JC on September 10, 2012, 03:58:39 PM: Someone is collecting the money you're spending regardless. The racetrack at least gives some of it back.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: ron.m on September 10, 2012, 04:03:15 PM: fishing pole 40.00 worms 2.00 dozen chair 25.00 McDonald coffee 1.00 not having to get into these discussions PRICELESS AND when I'm done I go home with my sanity.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Nick Austin on September 10, 2012, 04:11:34 PM: Quote from: Shamrock 3x on September 10, 2012, 02:47:33 PM
Attaboys for bbbr and Moselli....and shame on our moderator for even starting such an unnecessary and mean spirited thread!

I wouldn`t necessarily call it mean spirited, I think he was just venting more than anything. I can see how he gets frustrated by all the complaining about the economy and everything costing so much. It can get old after a while. Besides...
Wasn`t racing also expensive 10 years ago? Or 20? OR 30? Racing being expensive is nothing new . And at no point would I ever recommend that anyone count on winnings to help pay the bills. I kind of agree that if you don`t have the money you shouldn`t be trying to do it, especially if you have a family.

Personally, I waited 20 years before I felt I could "afford" to race. Money hasn`t been a huge problem, although I will be paying off the `ol credit card for quite a while. I haven`t had a lot of success, but had some fun and met some great people. I could probably figure out a way to fork out 20-30 grand for a brand new top notch street stock, but I won`t do it. At least not now. I have to draw the line somewhere. It took me half my life to climb out of poverty and I won`t go back to that.
I know a couple guys that keep trying to keep up with drivers that have the best of the best and it`s ruining them. They won`t answer the phone fearing bill collectors are calling, their car insurance is being cancelled, electric being shut off, etc. And they complain nonstop about how expensive racing is. In my opinion they should not be trying to do it. I wouldn`t necessarily say stay home, but maybe take a step back or drop down a class. They need to be more realistic. Because in a way, their lifestyle is no better than the people on welfare that swear they can`t provide for their family, but always seem to have plenty of money for beer, cigarettes, and tattoos. And I have a real problem with that.
JMO.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: itchypav on September 10, 2012, 04:26:30 PM: I believe Paz deserves a pass here. It's alright for all of us to complain or give our opinion but dam the moderator or admin for doing the same.

I own a car, have a son that races it and he also races for another team. It's expensive but it is fun. That's what we do for our entertainment. It is a family affair.

It's expensive and the "winnings' will never equal or even come close to the costs.

The rewards are 'immeasurable' though. What value do you attach to the excitement, when you do better than the last time or even win, the friendships, the talks and discussions with old friends and new. Think of what the "kid" could do as an alternative to our hobby.

If someone was telling the alcoholic to stop drinking because he was complaining all the time that the booze cost too much would you tell him to shutup and tell the alcoholic to go find cheaper alcohol?
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: The Race Report on September 10, 2012, 04:26:50 PM: All Paz did was put into words what we have always known... Racing is a (very) expensive hobby.

Saturday afternoon Paz, Al Robinson, and I were watching racers who spent more this past weekend than most weekend warriors do in an entire season. And the total purse for their three day event..... ? ZERO !!! :o

So if you love it, and can afford it, do it!

Or build a kart and go win the $10,000 at Frozen Ocean next Sunday.
I'll be there to watch you win..... ;D

Ron Hills
The Race Report
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 04:40:02 PM: Quote from: bbbr on September 10, 2012, 01:15:54 PM
Mike,

I think the last thing a moderator of this forum needs to do is encourage people who own race cars to stay home. This forum, if I understood correctly, once was for the betterment of local racing. Discussing issues, such as purses, costs of racing, the business of motorsports, etc. is exactly what this place was intended to do.

Occasionally people have opinions that don't agree with each other. There is NOTHING wrong with that. However, the attitude you seem to have taken with your comments and moderation lately is one of "take whatever the speedway says and eat it" or otherwise just shut up. You are not promoting dialogue at all.

No one is racing on the local level to make money. I don't think there is one racer here who is. It boils down to how much money are you going to lose and trying to keep that loss reasonable enough to continue to put the car on the track and provide some entertainment to fans. If there aren't race cars on the track, there aren't fans in the stands. No fans in the stands, we have shopping malls instead of race tracks. That simple.

OK I may not have expressed myself clearly. My comments were intended to PROMOTE racing by attempting to point out how really most of us are to have to compete at, which was the meat and potatoes of the post...apparently, my post was not read completely, only skimmed. I am disappointed at the comments by thgose who complain about every little thing they can find!

Ron: I am grateful for your suppoirtive opinion but to be fair the vintage road racing guys make more money in one year than ALL the members on this board--COMBINED!

Daryl: Thanks for the low blow. It really hurt--so NO MAS,NO MAS!!

I'll be glad to put on my "owner's hat" if and when you agree to trade your life with mine. I'll be more than willing to do just that...just show me how!!! and let me know when. The sooner, the better!!

I guess that admins and moderators have NO right to express their opinion if it is contrary to a particular person's belief
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: dirttrackrocker on September 10, 2012, 04:43:40 PM: Quote from: itchypav on September 10, 2012, 04:26:30 PM
I believe Paz deserves a pass here. It's alright for all of us to complain or give our opinion but dam the moderator or admin for doing the same.

I own a car, have a son that races it and he also races for another team. It's expensive but it is fun. That's what we do for our entertainment. It is a family affair.

It's expensive and the "winnings' will never equal or even come close to the costs.

The rewards are 'immeasurable' though. What value do you attach to the excitement, when you do better than the last time or even win, the friendships, the talks and discussions with old friends and new. Think of what the "kid" could do as an alternative to our hobby.

If someone was telling the alcoholic to stop drinking because he was complaining all the time that the booze cost too much would you tell him to shutup and tell the alcoholic to go find cheaper alcohol?

^^^^^ What he said^^^^^
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: billyboy88 on September 10, 2012, 04:51:50 PM: I believe we got the message of what your saying.You suit and ty guys have had it pretty good on that side of the fence,any of you have and time spent as owner driver or wrench man?c-mon over to the other side for a while...........
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: itchypav on September 10, 2012, 05:02:01 PM: Quote from: bbbr on September 10, 2012, 01:15:54 PM
No one is racing on the local level to make money. I don't think there is one racer here who is. It boils down to how much money are you going to lose and trying to keep that loss reasonable enough to continue to put the car on the track and provide some entertainment to fans.

I would hope that people had the attitude when they went racing not of how much they were going to lose but: How well will I do tonight? Will I qualify? Will I do better than last week? Will I win? Did I fix that issue I had with setup? I do agree about thinking about how much entertainment you are providing to your fans. Absolutely, because that is what it is all about. Feeling proud about doing a good job and doing better? Being able to stand with your supporters and say I did good and talk about it. And when you don't to stand up and talk about it, laugh and figure it out for next week.

Been there. Worked since I was 12, paid for my education, worked some more, worked 2 jobs, risked everything to start a side business while working a full time job, on and on. Still work 70-90 hrs/week to go racing. Blaming people for doing good is a crutch. It's called hard work, making good decisions and sometimes good luck. But it never entails giving up and blaming someone else for not succeeding.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: oldguy on September 10, 2012, 05:04:12 PM: Suit and tie? Not me. I've ridden on both sides of that fence - still do.

Everyone, even Mike, is entitled to their opinion.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 05:15:33 PM: Quote from: yeck22 on September 10, 2012, 01:51:35 PM
This is going to be funny when Race Announcer has to lock down a thread he started! lol

You have my word that I'll won't do that! I can't speak for admin, however...

The best way to make sure it doesn't happen is NOT to make personal attacks or continue to bash the tracks that make it possible for the provide space to "buy the addictive drug" called racing!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: crankyhick on September 10, 2012, 05:15:44 PM: I used to drink "ALOT", & wake up in the morning feeling like CRAP..Then I got deeply involved in racing & I wake up in the morning feeling "GREAT"....That is until I read junk like this on "raceny"..I don't always agree with anyone on raceny, but, Mikes point to me is simple, "race if you can (money) or join us who can't in the grandstands." Maybe I'll just stop my sponsorship deal & get a race car..I haven't had anything to moan & groan about lately, so I'll feel part of the crowd here on raceny....On the serious side; I admire all of you owner/drivers who provide my summertime fun..I know your all wanting more (money), but, there is only so much to go around..Hope to see many of your faces at the U.S. OPEN..
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 05:25:26 PM: Quote from: billyboy88 on September 10, 2012, 04:51:50 PM
I believe we got the message of what your saying.You suit and ty guys have had it pretty good on that side of the fence,any of you have and time spent as owner driver or wrench man?c-mon over to the other side for a while...........

Guess what??? DTRP's Ralph has...
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: billyboy88 on September 10, 2012, 06:17:42 PM: Who is Ralph? Does he have a racecar?
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceguy on September 10, 2012, 06:20:49 PM: This thread is now locked!!

(https://www.raceny.com/smf2/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi259.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh287%2Fraceguy18840%2Fk3964138.jpg&hash=bbde3f163fd040591a6a976750a4d74733d22b79)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Casper60 on September 10, 2012, 06:39:03 PM: LMAO +1
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Tigerpaw333 on September 10, 2012, 06:54:59 PM: Lets face the facts
1. This is hobby
2. You as owner/Driver have to pay to race
3. As fan we pay to watch the drivers
4. Yes this is a sport but how many of the local guys actually going to make it to the big times to actually make money
5. Its mostly the lack of common rules is the reason why the car counts are so low.
6. Fans and Drivers are always going to find something to bitch about you cant make everyone happy.
7. I will keep support my local tracks no matter what because if i dont i know A. i wont be happy over the summer and B. my favorite past time on Weekends will close
8. Try as fan to find entertainment for as cheap as price of admission for racing at most you pay what 12 dollars weekly to get in what is the price of the bills, sabres, bisons, bandits or even movies now a days.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Admin on September 10, 2012, 07:04:48 PM: Quote from: raceguy on September 10, 2012, 06:20:49 PM
This thread is now locked!!

([url]https://www.raceny.com/smf2/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi259.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh287%2Fraceguy18840%2Fk3964138.jpg&hash=bbde3f163fd040591a6a976750a4d74733d22b79[/url])

LOL
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceguy on September 10, 2012, 07:32:06 PM: Quote from: Admin on September 10, 2012, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: raceguy on September 10, 2012, 06:20:49 PM
This thread is now locked!!

([url]https://www.raceny.com/smf2/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi259.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh287%2Fraceguy18840%2Fk3964138.jpg&hash=bbde3f163fd040591a6a976750a4d74733d22b79[/url])

LOL

Feel free to use the "RaceNY Lockdown PoPo" the next time the need arises Admin! ;)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 10, 2012, 08:47:33 PM: Quote from: billyboy88 on September 10, 2012, 06:17:42 PM
Who is Ralph? Does he have a racecar?

You gotta be joking!(Ralph of DTRP) has owned and driven a pretty damn quick Camaro drag car! (Oh, wait, that's not a "real race car" for some on here) He sunk a lot of money into that car and raced it way before taking over DTRP!)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: no74falcon on September 11, 2012, 08:02:36 AM: The guy at work bitchin' about his wife everyday... I told him, you have a choice as you don't have to be married to her and we are sick of listening to you. Either leave her and make yourself happy, or STFU because we are tired of listening to your bullsh!t!!!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Half Fast Bob on September 11, 2012, 08:20:38 AM: My how things change...

When I was a kid, the term "PoPo" was a derogatory statement about a young black kid.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: herm on September 11, 2012, 08:57:52 AM: I can remember when both the car owners and drivers made money at the local tracks.Unfortunatly it was before I started racing.Today,at some tracks more than others,racing has changed to a degree from a spectator sport to a partisipant sport.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: 2300 on September 11, 2012, 12:02:05 PM: I'm at a loss about this thread. ???
EXTEREMELY? ??? ???
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: smallguy on September 11, 2012, 12:08:50 PM: Anybody who doesn't know how to make a small fortune in racing, please raise your hand....(chuckle)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: BANGIN BOB on September 11, 2012, 12:26:19 PM: TIME FOR MIKE TO BE RELEASED!!!!! MODERATORS OVERSEE AND PROMOTE THE BETTERMENT OF A GROUP. HIS

POST ARE CONFRONTATIONAL AND SARCASTIC AT BEST. YOUR REBUTTAL TO DARYL IS TO TRADE LIVES???

REALLY ???? STEP ASIDE MIKE, YOUR JUST MAKING YOURSELF LOOK POMPOUS AND SILLY.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 01:24:11 PM: Quote from: BANGIN BOB on September 11, 2012, 12:26:19 PM
TIME FOR MIKE TO BE RELEASED!!!!! MODERATORS OVERSEE AND PROMOTE THE BETTERMENT OF A GROUP. HIS

POST ARE CONFRONTATIONAL AND SARCASTIC AT BEST. YOUR REBUTTAL TO DARYL IS TO TRADE LIVES???

REALLY ???? STEP ASIDE MIKE, YOUR JUST MAKING YOURSELF LOOK POMPOUS AND SILLY.

Bob: read his post thoroughly...he took the first shot at me; he wanted me to "put on my owner's cap", which I would be happy to do if (1) I had the money and (2) I had hadn't suffered a stroke 3 years ago. he stated that because my stroke prevents me from doing what I used to do, love and yes, made money from, that I shouldn't have an opinion...If Daryl also has a similar or worse health problem, I was unaware of it and if it's true, I was WRONG and I am apologizing to him RIGHT NOW! My moderator privileges, however, do not prevent me from expressing myself up here as you and many others do. I have overseen this group to try to the best of my ability to patrol things as I see fit. Apparently, you really don't know me as the word "pompous" has never been used by anyone to describe myself. "Confrontational"? Yes...it's bound to happen as the mod for a site like this one--SARCASTIC? guilty as charged but a better description might be "self-confident"...Your demands for me to step aside is by it's itself by it's very nature "confrontational" which you claim to object to! And you will not "intimidate" me into stepping down with your "pompous" demand for my removal I almost died 3 years ago so no one (including you) can make me "shudder". If anything, you have now encouraged me to stand up for myself even more (meaning to express myself If I choose to do so) and do what I think is best for the "betterment" of this group...if admin believes as you do, I'll be gone, then leave the board then you and others can be very happy and you can go find someone else to crucify for posting opinions contrary to yours... I don't have a probllem with admitting I am wrong about anything! Let's see if you can do the same thing!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: The Race Report on September 11, 2012, 01:33:54 PM: Paz,

You do a great job, both as MODERATOR of this forum and CONTRIBUTOR to this forum.
Stay right where you are!! :)

Ron Hills
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Casper60 on September 11, 2012, 01:35:11 PM: Mike, my statement that you cannot do that job anymore was not an insult, or attack, or shot at you in any way, shape, or form. I apoligize if you took it that way but that was not my intent.

I simply stated, you've spend a long time on that side of the fence and have a skewed view of how the racer thinks about these things.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 01:39:52 PM: Quote from: Casper60 on September 11, 2012, 01:35:11 PM
Mike, my statement that you cannot do that job anymore was not an insult, or attack, or shot at you in any way, shape, or form. I apoligize if you took it that way but that was not my intent.

I simply stated, you've spend a long time on that side of the fence and have a skewed view of how the racer thinks about these things.

I can't deny that...but Daryl, do you also have a health issue as well? I'm just curious.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: bbbr on September 11, 2012, 01:56:13 PM: Mike,

I thought a couple of your comments yesterday easily could have fallen into the "arrogant" and "flippant" category, and had other parties made them to someone, you may have actually taken them to task on it.

You are entitled to your opinion on the matter, and free to express it. But as the old expression goes "sometimes its not what you say, but how you say it". I think that applies here.

I think in general you tend to be far more closely aligned to track owners and promoters on issues than you are racers. I think that probably stems from all the time you spent working for various racing organizations and speedways, I'm sure you have a lot of close friends and associates who are still involved with these places and its natural to side with them in these instances.

As I stated yesterday the expression of differing opinions is fine. It's healthy. And it should continue to go on. The thing I found inexcusable was when you basically told people who didn't agree with the speedway to keep their cars at home in the garage. The last thing a moderator of a forum whose stated goal is for the betterment of auto racing needs to do is to tell racers to leave their race car at home. Like KT said yesterday, far too many have gone that route already. The focus should be on finding solutions to keep racers on the track, and encourage new ones. And if part of that is done through using public forums to put pressure on track owners/promoters etc to fix problems like purse structure or rules issues, then so be it. If the purpose of this forum is going to be to tell racers to either like it or leave it, then this forum might as well cease to exist, because it won't be doing a damn bit of good to furthering the promotion of, or improving the quality of, auto racing in this area.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: kt on September 11, 2012, 01:58:02 PM: :-X
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Casper60 on September 11, 2012, 03:06:33 PM: Quote from: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: Casper60 on September 11, 2012, 01:35:11 PM
Mike, my statement that you cannot do that job anymore was not an insult, or attack, or shot at you in any way, shape, or form. I apoligize if you took it that way but that was not my intent.

I simply stated, you've spend a long time on that side of the fence and have a skewed view of how the racer thinks about these things.

I can't deny that...but Daryl, do you also have a health issue as well? I'm just curious.

Physical health, not that I am aware of. Mental health... Well I own race cars. That alone should tell you something is wrong with me on a mental level. ;)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 03:18:57 PM: Ron Hills: Thanks for your continuing support

Daryl: We're good. We can disagree and I respect your opinions, even if we are at polar opposites every once in awhile...
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Casper60 on September 11, 2012, 03:31:44 PM: While I may not have any health issues personally, I watched my father fade into a shell of himself and eventually succumb to health issues. It's not something I would ever poke fun at Mike, because it's not funny. Don't mistake me for that type of person.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 03:49:16 PM: One of my problems with social media (sites like this, texts or Facebook or Twitter or even classical email), there's no facial expressions, no way (other than caps) to emphasize phrases, such as voice inflections, physical gestures, body language and perhaps other subtleties that exist in face-to-face conversation just can't manifest themselves in "digital medium". I try to express myself up here as accurately as i can; yet it still has the possibility of having inaccuracies, being misunderstood, things taken out of context, etc) We are all passionate about racing in our own way for a variety of reasons. Similarly, I can misunderstand and be wrong about what others express up here. From my perspective, I would rather meet as many of you so we can discuss things in person, rather than arguing and debating in the digital domain!!!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: no74falcon on September 11, 2012, 03:52:37 PM: I'm not sure if I agree with you Paz... I'm pretty sure I've made it perfectly clear here on RACENY what an a$$hole I can be!!! ::)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 04:42:39 PM: Quote from: no74falcon on September 11, 2012, 03:52:37 PM
I'm not sure if I agree with you Paz... I'm pretty sure I've made it perfectly clear here on RACENY what an a$$hole I can be!!! ::)

Apparently, you and I are on the same boat...and it's sinking FAST!

ABANDON SHIP!!!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: BANGIN BOB on September 11, 2012, 04:46:30 PM: BBBR, NICE TO MEET YOU AND THANK YOU FOR FINISHING MY THOUGHTS, I COULD NOT HAVE SAID THEM BETTER !!

PAZ, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T GET MY POINT. AS MODERATOR YOU ARE HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD THEN THE

COMMON POSTER, AND I THINK YOU CROSSED THAT LINE BY ENGAGING IN AND CREATING NEGATIVE TREADS.

THE VERY TYPE OF THREADS THAT ANNOY YOU.

EXAMPLE: YOU TOOK EXCEPTION TO THE "WHINERS" IN THE DTRP 4 CYLINDERS BECAUSE THEY COMPLAINED

ABOUT THE US OPEN PURSE. THEIR COMPLAINTS RESULTED IN...

1. DTRP APOLOGIZING FOR MAKING A MISTAKE IN THE PURSE PAYOUT, RESULTING IN A PURSE INCREASE.

2. SAID PURSE INCREASE MIGHT ACTUALLY BRING IN OTHER CARS RESULTING IN A BETTER SHOW.

YOUR ATTITUDE OF "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR CANT AFFORD IT DON'T RACE" WOULD HAVE ACCOMPLISHED

NEITHER. EVERYONE HAS A OPINION, BUT AS A MODERATOR TRYING TO KEEP A LID ON NEGATIVITY, I FEEL

YOU DROPPED THE BALL.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: qb08 on September 11, 2012, 05:00:11 PM: When is the last time you have thousands of people Paying to watch you fish, hunt, ski????the point is that the owners are making $$ that the racers do not see.. Racers provide entertainment for people.. And should be rewarded for their effort.. Im not saying making tons of $.. but to make it worth it for you and the fans there needs to be money earned..

Quote from: dirttrackrocker on September 10, 2012, 01:07:45 PM
I am going to have to agree here.. For those of you that Golf, Hunt, Fish, Ski, etc. How much money do you have wrapped up in your equipment? How much did your last outing cost you? Did anyone pay you when you got back based on your performance? NO!! Racing is an expensive hobby, be thankful that there are sponsors out there that help out and the racetracks actually pay something back. I can't think of any other hobby that does that.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 05:12:50 PM: OK Bob, I understand your explanation. Since it appears I have the power to do all that you say, I wish I had the power to reverse any damage I may have caused...I won't be seeing any of you @ the Open (I doubt I would be welcome there now!)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Admin on September 11, 2012, 05:23:36 PM: Quote from: BANGIN BOB on September 11, 2012, 04:46:30 PM
EVERYONE HAS A OPINION, BUT AS A MODERATOR TRYING TO KEEP A LID ON NEGATIVITY, I FEEL YOU DROPPED THE BALL.

Perhaps...but Paz has an opinion too and he voiced it. I don't see where he dropped the ball. Unless we have to explicitly state 'IMHO' (in my humble opinion), I interpreted his posts as "in his opinion" and everyone should as well.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Jayman on September 11, 2012, 07:48:12 PM: Quote from: qb08 on September 11, 2012, 05:00:11 PM
When is the last time you have thousands of people Paying to watch you fish, hunt, ski????the point is that the owners are making $$ that the racers do not see.. Racers provide entertainment for people.. And should be rewarded for their effort.. Im not saying making tons of $.. but to make it worth it for you and the fans there needs to be money earned..

Quote from: dirttrackrocker on September 10, 2012, 01:07:45 PM
I am going to have to agree here.. For those of you that Golf, Hunt, Fish, Ski, etc. How much money do you have wrapped up in your equipment? How much did your last outing cost you? Did anyone pay you when you got back based on your performance? NO!! Racing is an expensive hobby, be thankful that there are sponsors out there that help out and the racetracks actually pay something back. I can't think of any other hobby that does that.

Some food for thought. Not all the $$ that a track takes in goes to the promoters pocket as seems to be some peoples thought process here. Yes, the racers put on the show and are the entertainment, but the promoter/track owner have the cost of building/operating/maintaining the facility that gives all us folks a place to race our wonderful machines. Last I checked, running a race track, a business that is very dependent on the state of the economy and the weather is an expensive venture with high risk. I can't blame the peopel who invest their money in race tracks to want to be able to pay their bills and possibly even make a profit (or at least break even). Now, don't I think increasing and adding entry fees is the best way to get longevity and success out of a track, but we all have to face facts: 1, it is expensive to race in todays world in most classes, 2. it is expensive to operate a race track (remeber, the officials, announcers, flaggers, tech guys, concession workers, ticket takers, etc do not work for free in most cases..... both tracks and racers need to do what they can to make their ends of the sport thrive and survive.

What I would like to see this turn into is can we really look at both sides objectively and figure a formula that works best for both the racers and the 'folks on the other side of the fence'.

Before anyone beats me up for my opnions, please realize I have been a paid official at many tracks for many years (the old Shangri-La/Tioga, Thunder Mountain, Skyline, Afton, and the new Shangri-La 2) as well as being a sponsor for several years on my brother-in-laws cars, as well as being a car owner of some of their cars, as well as being a car owner of my own car at times, and racing my own car at my own expense at times... I think I have a well rounded viewpoint from all sides and can offer good and bad points from each.

I understand Paz's point, just think maybe it came off a little more negative to some than he intended.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: 68mustangfb on September 11, 2012, 09:31:31 PM: Wow, Might have to throw the YELLOW, maybe the RED, or even the BLUE w/stripe flag on this one. Got the BLACK Flag ready if I need it. What do ya think Paz ?? :o :o :o
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: qb08 on September 11, 2012, 09:31:58 PM: :)
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceguy on September 11, 2012, 10:38:12 PM: Let's throw this flag....the brown flag.

Infamous flagman extraordinaire Jim Burleigh has one like it! ;D

(https://www.raceny.com/smf2/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi259.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh287%2Fraceguy18840%2F500px-Brown_flag_wavingsvg.png&hash=81cee707f315a294e0d7045a6aca326486b71d58)

Flag meaning: "I've has enough of the $hit, the next color you'll see will be darker than this flag"
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 11:16:09 PM: Quote from: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 05:12:50 PM
OK Bob, I understand your explanation. Since it appears I have the power to do all that you say, I wish I had the power to reverse any damage I may have caused...I won't be seeing any of you @ the Open (I doubt I would be welcome there now!)

I have received A PM from Tim Packman indicating that I am most welcome to the track this weekend. A big "Thank You" to him and the track for the hospitality! Pay NO attention to swirling rumors that I will be the target in a ball tossing "dunk tank"...(Uh Oh, now I have done it again), posting & not thinking before hit the button!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 11, 2012, 11:17:10 PM: Quote from: 68mustangfb on September 11, 2012, 09:31:31 PM
Wow, Might have to throw the YELLOW, maybe the RED, or even the BLUE w/stripe flag on this one. Got the BLACK Flag ready if I need it. What do ya think Paz ?? :o :o :o

NOT by me; admin has a set of flags, too! But I do like the "brown" flag idea--maybe it could be designed with huge "BS" with the "no" graphic over it!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Shamrock 3x on September 12, 2012, 10:36:36 AM: I was thinking of posting on this thread when bbbr basically stole the thoughts right out of my head and put 'em down here. So another attaboy for the mind reader, bbbr! Now can someone tell me which dictionary I can find EXTEREMELY in? I've had no luck in my search so far.
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: spooker on September 12, 2012, 11:55:30 AM: Quote from: Tigerpaw333 on September 10, 2012, 06:54:59 PM
5. Its mostly the lack of common rules is the reason why the car counts are so low.

Bingo! When I was young and foolish, I couldn't afford to race, but did. Now that I'm older and hopefully wiser, I COULD afford it if there was some consistency in the rules and their enforcement. Until that happens, I'll stay home. Tracks throwing the rulebook out the window in an attempt to help their car count is, IMHO, exteremely detrimental in the long run.

Brian
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Nick Austin on September 12, 2012, 12:13:10 PM: Remember the 80`s show "Valley Girl"?
I believe she frequently used the word "EXTEREMELY" ;D
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: GarySS1 on September 12, 2012, 12:15:15 PM: Paz in a "dunk tank", I'll make the 3 hour drive to throw balls at that.. ;D
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Ratzso on September 12, 2012, 01:14:35 PM: This and Word Association appear to be the only active threads on RaceNY.

Anyone know if Danica is still competing in NA$CAR sanctioned events?

Thanks,

Ratzso
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 12, 2012, 04:28:38 PM: Quote from: Ratzso on September 12, 2012, 01:14:35 PM
This and Word Association appear to be the only active threads on RaceNY.

Anyone know if Danica is still competing in NA$CAR sanctioned events?

Thanks,

Ratzso

Depends on your definition of the word "competing"...
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: chief57 on September 12, 2012, 05:29:15 PM: i seen her in a music video the other day on gac. i must confess to sitting down and watching. :P
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: billyboy88 on September 12, 2012, 05:32:50 PM: she sure tubs up nice...........
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: raceannouncer on September 12, 2012, 10:18:53 PM: Quote from: billyboy88 on September 12, 2012, 05:32:50 PM
she sure tubs up nice...........

She also seems to have a knack for turning cars into "tubs";(yes, there are a few times when she got caught in someone else's problems but the results are still the same)...just ask some of the crew who works on 'em afterwards!
Title: Re: EXTEREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT
Post by: Ratzso on September 13, 2012, 08:52:21 AM: Thanks for the updates on Danica.

There was a rumor going around that since she has hit everything but the pace car this year and Junior Motorsports was out of cars, she was going to have to take a part time job at the Waffle House until they could get something together for her.

Signed,

Ratzso