Land of Legends point fund example

[oneill71mod]

True Goggles... the average fan has no clue what it takes to go racing, Taking over a track or series and making rule changes or nickel and diming the racer is B.S.

[dan19n]

Mr. Ratzo, you have raised excellent questions amd made interesting predictions. I am inclined to believe you have a great deal of experience in this racing sport, am I correct? Oneil is probably right in his assesment and statement. I don't know an answer. But,, I am going to the meeting to see how well the management addesses the corncerns......... ( Ratzo,,, look closely at Pisono's name,,, I think there is ONLY one "s"?)

[fastbackss]

I have read this thread, and am trying to be as open-minded about this as I can be. 

Here is what I understand:
- the pit pass price went up $3
- the points fund has guaranteed more through the field
- it is new promoters

Here is where I will opine based on that:
If I was a new promoter, I (think I) would try to be as careful as possible.  To me, this is offering an incentive based points fund.  So, there is something there for my drivers, but nothing that is going to hit me in the arse if something major happens (9 rainouts, cloudy sky on night of biggest show, etc).  I view that as good practice for somebody taking over and not trying to overpromise.

Only paying out the top 3 for points previously - I do not view that as good practice.  (Although, I hope that it was known before the season started, in which case everybody knew what they were getting into all along)

I think publishing it early is good practice, and by having it so visible doesn't allow for monkey business (I have been burned on the back end of a points fund before...).  It allows for discussion such as this, and I hope the responses are being given to management like dan19n is doing.

Increasing pit pass $3.  Yeah, that's tough.  And while I empathize with the "take from the team now and pay back later", I am not as aggrieved by it. 

Let's do some math based on 2017 points charts from Canadaigua website.

Street stocks there were supposed to be 20 races.  There ended up only being 14.
70% of 14 is 9.8. 
30 drivers entered at least 1 race.  Depending on rounding, 9 drivers did 9 or more races.  7 drivers did 10 or more.*
Let's use a worst case of 4 pit guys (+1 driver).  That is $15 increase per week for that team.  The most races you could have done with no payback is 9 - that is $135**.
The total points fund for the street stocks would have been $4710 (157 total race entries*$30).
*Interestingly here, 7 drivers share in the bonus money for attendance.  But 3 others would receive payout for finishing in the top 10 in points despite not having run 70% of the races...that does not occur in mods or sportsman, for what it's worth.
**If there were no rainouts, the most races you could run is 13 without getting bonus money.  That would be an extra $195 out of pocket for your team ($15 x 13)

For comparison sake:
Modifieds -
34 drivers attempted at least 1 race
15 races were run, which makes 70% 10.5 starts
16 drivers did 10 or more, 15 drivers did 11 or more.
(So, in the modifieds, worst case 15 drivers get money for attendance, and 10 of those 15 get the additional money for points finishing)

Sportsman -
40 drivers attempted at least 1 race
16 races were run, which makes 70% 11.2 starts
Since nobody had 11 race starts, I went right to 12.  12 drivers started 12 or more.
(So, in the sportsman 12 drivers get money for attendance, and 10 of those 12 get the additional money for points finishing position)

[Goggles Pisano]

I have read this thread, and am trying to be as open-minded about this as I can be. 

Here is what I understand:
- the pit pass price went up $3
- the points fund has guaranteed more through the field
- it is new promoters

Here is where I will opine based on that:
If I was a new promoter, I (think I) would try to be as careful as possible.  To me, this is offering an incentive based points fund.  So, there is something there for my drivers, but nothing that is going to hit me in the arse if something major happens (9 rainouts, cloudy sky on night of biggest show, etc).  I view that as good practice for somebody taking over and not trying to overpromise.

Only paying out the top 3 for points previously - I do not view that as good practice.  (Although, I hope that it was known before the season started, in which case everybody knew what they were getting into all along)

I think publishing it early is good practice, and by having it so visible doesn't allow for monkey business (I have been burned on the back end of a points fund before...).  It allows for discussion such as this, and I hope the responses are being given to management like dan19n is doing.

Increasing pit pass $3.  Yeah, that's tough.  And while I empathize with the "take from the team now and pay back later", I am not as aggrieved by it. 

Let's do some math based on 2017 points charts from Canadaigua website.

Street stocks there were supposed to be 20 races.  There ended up only being 14.
70% of 14 is 9.8. 
30 drivers entered at least 1 race.  Depending on rounding, 9 drivers did 9 or more races.  7 drivers did 10 or more.*
Let's use a worst case of 4 pit guys (+1 driver).  That is $15 increase per week for that team.  The most races you could have done with no payback is 9 - that is $135**.
The total points fund for the street stocks would have been $4710 (157 total race entries*$30).
*Interestingly here, 7 drivers share in the bonus money for attendance.  But 3 others would receive payout for finishing in the top 10 in points despite not having run 70% of the races...that does not occur in mods or sportsman, for what it's worth.
**If there were no rainouts, the most races you could run is 13 without getting bonus money.  That would be an extra $195 out of pocket for your team ($15 x 13)

For comparison sake:
Modifieds -
34 drivers attempted at least 1 race
15 races were run, which makes 70% 10.5 starts
16 drivers did 10 or more, 15 drivers did 11 or more.
(So, in the modifieds, worst case 15 drivers get money for attendance, and 10 of those 15 get the additional money for points finishing)

Sportsman -
40 drivers attempted at least 1 race
16 races were run, which makes 70% 11.2 starts
Since nobody had 11 race starts, I went right to 12.  12 drivers started 12 or more.
(So, in the sportsman 12 drivers get money for attendance, and 10 of those 12 get the additional money for points finishing position)

Whoa.  Hold on a minute. Let's not let facts get in the way here.   Are you insane?

[oneill71mod]

I think I speak for most Racers here... the point funds at most tracks or racing series are so small compared to what is spent on a yearly basis,plus the banquets are overpriced and usually during the busy holiday season...Put the money toward the weekly purse... you will get more cars and that will lead to more fans...point funds are too small to brag about(especially most NASCAR tracks) compared to all the money spent on a weekly basis by the racer...and the racers like to be paid at the end of the nite in cash, that way there’s no hard feelings when checks don’t get mailed or bounce...

[Orange18]

The thing that burned me last year was that every time their was a special show like the Patriot sprints the back gate would go up $5 and I sure did not get any more at the pay window. Why am I paying for that? It is not like I ever get to watch.

[Sunny]

Just a reminder how far back LOLR is paying through the field.

[Orange18]

Does any one out there that fields a car weekly take a burn when a traveling series shows up and we support classes pay there purse at the pit window with an increase in pit fees? I think it is great for the fans and they made the choice to attend the race and they are OK with the increase in the entrance fee but it does absolutely nothing for me except take more money out of my pocket in the end. I bring 2-3 people with me every week. Things like this add up. Then we get the guy on the pit speaker yelling at us to hurry up and get on line!!! WAAA WWWA WWWAAA GET ON LINE!!! HURRY!! Just to keep the show moving along. It can be a stressful pain in the *****.

[Goggles Pisano]

Just a reminder how far back LOLR is paying through the field.

OK.  That is a good payout.  I take back what I said about the three bucks.

[Sunny]

I never know when you are serious or not. Either way, I hope it was informative for you.