Author Topic: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York  (Read 557245 times)

Gomerpyle

  • Racing Genius
  • *****
  • Posts: 4188
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2010, 10:23:23 AM »
The oringinal Thunder Mountain Speedway was to be built between Route 11 and Interstate 81 just a mile or two down route 11 from the Lisle bridge. Gary Dyer had the corners all dug out and then New York State stepped in and said they TOOK that land from the previous owner by Eminent Domain. So the site was switch.
Kareem of Wheet


frontierjoe

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
    • Frontier Graphic & Signs
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2010, 11:52:20 AM »
Yeah there's even a few old racecars in the woods behind my grandfathers that ran there. None of them could be salvaged or anything but I'll try and get some pics when the weather breaks.

blackjackracing

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
    • blackjack-johnson.com
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2010, 08:56:28 PM »
hey Jay...The guy on raceny that really knows about the "bugs" is Dale Welty...post that on oldies but goodies and I'm sure he'll have some insight for you.
Larry Mc...I have heard that in order to get to Glider city you had to drive through the creek...any truth to that? You'll love what I dug up today......
BOB JOHNSON
"Faster than a greased cheetah strapped to the front of a bullet train"
www.QUICKSKINZ.com


blackjackracing

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
    • blackjack-johnson.com
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2010, 09:05:40 PM »
Jay Mooney...going through my notes I found a notation about Cortland...They ran from 1932 until 1953...I haven't verified that yet, but if so, that's one hell of a long life for a race track...the average seems to be about a year and a half give or take a month
BOB JOHNSON
"Faster than a greased cheetah strapped to the front of a bullet train"
www.QUICKSKINZ.com


Beenthere

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2010, 09:26:30 PM »
Some thoughts on all this:

1. I was a kid of 10 or 11, I guess, when Towanda opened. My family attended regularly through most of the life of the track, as well as pretty regularly at Chemung and once in a while at Ithaca-Dryden. I recall the move to the bugs being a sort of an evolution pursued by changes in rules. The first bug I saw was when Popeye Vincent cut a coupe down to about half its heighth. It was a B car. It was the number 180, blue and white,  and he was ahead of the competition in thinking about center of gravity. He ran at Towanda, and I think is still kicking around here. The promoters at the VFW track once organized a match race between the low-slung 180 and a Jag driven by a local sports car enthusiast, Stan Patten. I assume Popeye won, though I don't remember clearly. But I do recall the Jag bounding wildly through the turn ruts in the dirt surface.

2. As to the track in Athens, I would think it was in the 1950s that my parents took me to a make-shift race track located along the river between Athens and Sheshequin, on the Sheshequin side of the river. I believe it was down across a big field in the woods next to the river. Probably flood plain. The track was really small ... not much more than a circle 75 yards or so across..One small set of bleachers. Maybe a couple hundred people in attendance. Brush pilled round the outside of the track to stop free-loading gawkers, probably indicating the track was carved out of an unused brushlot. I remember some jalopies racing around the circle with awful dust in the afternoon from the dry silt. I don't think the track lasted more than a season, if that.

3. You might want to investigate a little before donating any rare racing memorabilia to the local historical society. Is there anyone at the society who gives a hoot about local racing history? Can you guarantee there always will be? Most historical societies have a problem, ... too many donations and too little space to display or store all these precious items. So while somebody may accept the donation at the front door, after a year or five it may be quietly slipped out the back door for consignment to an auction house. The museums need the income from these sales to display and store items deemed more central to their mission. One of the best ways for saving racing memorabilia and sharing it well beyond any historical society is right in front of us ... via pictures and descriptions on the internet. Look at how we all enjoy the existing racing historical sites. It doesn't take much to organize such a site today with all the help given online at various places. So share your collections online.

4. Beware of folks who are going to use your racing history in a book they're going to write someday. They're probably well intentioned, but those books never seem to get written.

Tangletongue

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 212
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2010, 09:40:06 PM »
Woodhull ran "Bugs" or B-Modified cars from opening day on June 13 to July 8, 1965. The car counts ranged from six to eleven cars with the eleven showing up on the day George Williams decided to stop running them.  I think the car count had alot to do with the decision, but also the cost of running three classes in the early weeks of Woodhull was putting a drain on the profit margin. Charlie Wright from Little Marsh, Pa. won the first week, with Jackie Soper sweeping the next three races in a white #2 that looked alot like the Purdy Deuce from up north. I think the car was owned by Gil Frisbie. On July 8, George returned the pit fee to the teams, and gave them ten bucks for tow money.

I don't ever remember  B- Mods at Addison Hill, but I know Mills ran cars that would have fit the B class, Pete Kent and Phil Thompson had cut down Model A Coupes that were based in the Nelson area and ran Mills in the last couple of years at that track. A couple guys came down to Woodhull from the Cuba, Belfast, Wellsville area  with Bugs, so I'm sure some of the western tracks were running them, and Art Clark, Eddie Anchor etc had Bugs, so Im sure the Northwest part of the state ran them. I know Perry did as I have a few photos from that era. I'll defer to Dale on the eastern part of the state.

Pa. had V-8 cars that resembled the Bugs... Russ Smith's Flathead powered blue and yellow #11 comes to mind and a little later a young fellow started his racing career in a 302 Ford powered machine that looked alot like one of the Chemung Bugs but was called a Sportsman. Guy's name was Kramer Williamson.

I think the B-Modifieds were a pretty solid class in the northeast, with a few regional quirks.

If you want some really wild looking Bugs, or Dirt SuperModifieds, do some searching for some of the midwest modifieds of the era.


Tangletongue

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 212
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2010, 09:52:40 PM »
"You'll love what I dug up today......"

Neat find Bob.   Just a thought..."5000 gallons of oil..."????  Does that site qualify for HazMat cleanup fund money?


Jay Mooney

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2010, 10:20:31 PM »
Thank you, Tangletongue and Beenthere.  That’s what I was curious about.  I was kind of wondering if some of these old, long closed tracks mentioned in this thread ran the "bugs" too.  It seems like more tracks ran the “bugs” than I first thought.  I always thought they were really interesting race cars.  Love looking at pictures of them.  There's a discussion going on now over on the Williams Grove Speedway message board about the "bugs" and where they evolved from.  A few Southern Tier area drivers and tracks are mentioned.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 10:36:59 PM by Jay Mooney »


Jay Mooney

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2010, 10:33:38 PM »
Twin Valley raceway in Chenango Forks, I grew up right next door. The track actually is still there. Although it is getting very over grown . Most of the outside rails are still there, when we where kids we would have of 3, 4 wheelers and bikes there racing. Great fun. Karl Spoonhower  tried to open it back before Thunder Mountain but the town changed the zoning so that they couldn't. I wish we could have got more than just my racecar on that track. It's a really big 1/2 mile with quite a bit of banking. Maybe sometime this spring I'll get so pictures. 
I also grew up in the Forks, although I moved away a long time ago.  In fact, the land where Twin Valley Speedway sits was once my grandfather’s farm. 

The b&w pic is a Gater News action shot from Twin Valley in 1972, the last season the track was open. (170-Don Beagell, 9-Norm Norton, 90-George Ely).  The color pics are ones I took of Twin Valley back when I was a kid.  Rode my bicycle up there and snapped a few pictures 30 years ago.  I'm sure the place looks a lot worse today.



blackjackracing

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
    • blackjack-johnson.com
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2010, 04:56:49 PM »
In response to the post by beenthere...I got the impression from the two historical society's I have been in contact with that they were very excited to receive the information. I don't think I would donate my family heirloms, but they want to copy what I get from the research I am doing....If nothing else we are digging up great memories and unburying tracks that have been all but forgotten
BOB JOHNSON
"Faster than a greased cheetah strapped to the front of a bullet train"
www.QUICKSKINZ.com


frontierjoe

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
    • Frontier Graphic & Signs
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2010, 08:23:46 PM »
Those pics of twin valley, thanks. I've sat down there for years and thought for years about what it looked like when it was open. I was just fortunate to live next door and get a few really good hot laps on it in my car back in the 90s.

Half Fast Bob

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 990
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2010, 02:54:06 AM »
blackjackracing...

I've been away from RaceNY since mid October, but not by choice. With my Dad being in ICU since mid October and reconnecting with my first girlfriend at the same time, I've had a ton of distractions. Things have calmed down immensely and I've finally gotten back to life as usual.

You called me on the phone last Saturday evening to tell me that you had confirmed the location of Glider City. I asked you to call back on Sunday because I had a previous commitment and couldn't talk right then. Apparently you got tied up and that's cool... stuff happens. I've got good news though.

Glider City still exists as far as I can tell. I found this thread while catching up on stuff I'd missed since October, and decided to play a hunch. I went to Bing Maps and found the airport in Big Flats. Lo and behold, Bing has high resolution images in the area. With this thread open in one browser and Bing open in another, I was able to pinpoint your picture of Glider City on the high res image they show today. The track outline is still visible in this picture. Check it out...



This image was taken sometime during the week of April 2nd, 2006. The reason I know this for certain is that my brother had me take pictures of his Harley before he moved to Florida that year. He parked his motorcycle in my mom and dads front yard and I took a half dozen or so shots. Coincidentally, his motorcycle is in the front yard in the satellite image of mom and dads house - the only time it sat there. Those pictures are dated 4/2/06, which means the satellite was flying over New York during that week.

What I don't know is whether or not the museum has expanded to where the track shows on my image. If you or anyone else are in the vicinity and can check it out, I'd surely appreciate it.

Keep up the good work.
Bob Miller


If they can have artists, pianists, florists, dentists and bicyclists... then I must be a racist.


MOD27NY

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • A Winner is measured in TESTICULAR Circumference
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2010, 11:02:09 AM »
BUGS
Mark Terry

MOD27NY

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • A Winner is measured in TESTICULAR Circumference
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2010, 11:02:58 AM »
Lester Green
Mark Terry

MOD27NY

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • A Winner is measured in TESTICULAR Circumference
    • View Profile
Re: Racing History in the Southern Tier of New York
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2010, 11:04:17 AM »
Bryan Osgood
Mark Terry