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Messages - dustydarkwater

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Racing Discussion / Re: Five Mile Point To Open in 2019
« on: December 30, 2018, 02:12:19 PM »
Who's running it?
They didn't say. All the facebook post said was that there would be an announcement in one to two weeks.

Racing Discussion / Five Mile Point To Open in 2019
« on: December 29, 2018, 03:09:53 PM »
According to a post on Five Mile Point's facebook page they are on the verge of signing a lease for 2019. No other details were available other than further information will be coming in the next week or two. 

Racing Discussion / Re: Skyline Raceway Park closes
« on: July 17, 2018, 12:35:35 PM »
I’m sorry to hear this. The first time I went to Skyline was way back when it first re-opened. Late Models were the headline class and I was worried that the lack of modifieds would somehow make the show seem less than complete, like a salad with no meal to follow. I couldn’t have been more wrong. This was before Thunder Mountain was open and there were 50+ cars in both the Street Stock and 4 Cylinder classes with Late Model car count in the low 20’s. The heat races meant something. 

At the time, the rules were unique for Skyline. The Street Stocks were more restrictive than the class that was running at Penn Can and Five Mile at that time. The 8 Cylinder Late Models were also unique as Penn Can and Five Mile were running a 6 cylinder class at the time.

The place was packed with very passionate and vocal fans. They were nearly as entertaining as the racing.

It appears that changing times, changing tastes and a glut of entertainment options, both racing and non racing, have taken their toll on Skyline.

A big part of the end of Skyline has to be the death of the low budget, stock car that was their bread and butter for so many years. The advent of professionally built race cars has put a damper on the “Mom and Pop” race tracks that catered to the hobbyist who’s racing budget came from a weekly paycheck and not sponsors or well heeled family members.

I hate to see any track close, but trying to do the same thing as everyone else isn’t going to work. They felt Saturdays weren’t working so they switched to Fridays. When that failed, they went back to what had already been proven not to work, they returned to Saturdays. They never gave Sundays a shot. Not that there are any guarantees on Sundays as Utica Rome and Glen Ridge are both facing challenges on Sundays.

Maybe someone will come along and save the track. Small cars may work. I know they tried it this year with limited success, but maybe, with the right people behind it, the track may not have to die. I certainly hope this isn’t the end of racing on that hill.

(Don’t mistake this as a criticism of Dean and his team. I have no doubt they put everything they had into the track.)

Racing Discussion / Re: Racing Burnout or Something Else?
« on: July 03, 2018, 11:49:01 AM »
What you are witnessing is the future of dirt racing in the northeast. There are a myriad of reasons for this. First, the idea that people are going to build their own cars is as dead as Studebaker. It’s not going to happen. At least not in numbers that will sustain any class. You can point fingers at society if you want, but the attitude isn’t going away. Who wants to spend the time and money building a car only to go out and get lapped by store bought cars? Sure, you can point a finger at the exception to this, and there are those who have done it, but so many more have thrown in the towel on their experiment. Some went store bought, others found other outlets for their time and money.

We live in modified country and that’s what the majority of fans want to see and drivers want to drive. It’s a shame because variety dies with that.

I was thinking about Five Mile Point in the mid 80’s. They ran 4 distinct classes, modifieds, 6 cylinder late models, 4 cylinder modifieds and street stocks. Each class looked and sounded very different. I miss that.

If I had to guess I would say that many of the support division cars were home built, at least the street stocks. Now, we are in a “spec” racing world, which is a mixed blessing.

The crate program has allowed racers to drive the cars that they dreamed of, even if they aren’t modifieds, they look like it and to the casual fan, that may be good enough. The crates have also resulted in the slow, painful death of street stocks and IMCA modifieds. (Although the decline of the IMCA modified can partly be attributed to the perceived apathy to the Northeast by the sanctioning body)

It’s my understanding that for the cost of a competitive street stock a driver can field an equally competitve crate sportsmen. (I’m using the Southern Tier, FMP, TM, AMP, PC and SRP as reference). It’s growing more and more evident that not enough people want to spend the money on a fringe class, which is what these classes are today.

The lack of 8 cylinder rear wheel drive cars also plays into this. Racers have the attitude that it has to fit that criteria or they aren’t interested. Try suggesting any other options, FWD 4 or 6 cylinder divisions and no one will listen to you. Skyline proposed a 6 cylinder division a few years back and nothing ever came of it.

I don’t know what is going to happen. There doesn’t seem to be any viable, non-modified style, classes on the horizon. Don’t mistake this as a defense of what is happening, I like variety in racing. The best part of going to new tracks is to see classes I don’t get to see on a regular basis.

Racing Discussion / Re: Sports Gambling legal
« on: May 15, 2018, 05:05:26 PM »
There are theories that's what saved horse racing

 :o :o  HUGE difference.........let me explain.  Horse racing was the only legal betting entity for a long time   and as such sent
a portion of that gambling "take" to the State as a pari-mutuel tax. The more money wagered the more the tracks made and the Government.
As interest in horse wagering has waned so to has the take to the State. The result of that is other forms of gambling  are now allowed and continue to send revenue to the State. Part of that revenue is used to support the purse structure at the horse tracks that really have fallen on hard time.  Actually is a form of welfare to the tracks to keep the horse racing business afloat. Not enough money is coming thru the betting windows to sustain it by itself.  Now short track auto racing is a whole different animal. Since wagering isn't a part of it in the traditional sense and the State doesn't get a "take" from it, it's like any other private business that is subject to market forces to stay afloat and keep operating.  A direct subsidy wouldn't fly politically and you don't want the State getting their hands on it anyway. Racing has enough issues  as it is and having the government "run it" would kill it for sure.

I know it will never happen and everything you've said is true. It was more of a pipe dream than any realistic expectation of it ever happening.

Racing Discussion / Re: Sports Gambling legal
« on: May 15, 2018, 03:43:04 AM »
I'm wondering about legalized betting at local tracks. There are theories that's what saved horse racing. Could it save the small tracks?

Racing Discussion / Re: Picking Rocks and Clean up days
« on: May 02, 2018, 05:48:39 PM »
I think there are people who want to be involved with racing in some way. They may not be racers or officials, but their local track is where they spend their time and if they can lend a hand by cleaning the grounds or doing a bit of painting, they will gladly do it. It makes them feel that they are a part of the track, a part of the, for lack of a better word, community.  I know for a fact that there have been a number of people who volunteer for various jobs on race nights at certain tracks, and by volunteer, I mean they do it for no pay.

Racing Discussion / Re: Where are all you race fans?
« on: April 23, 2018, 04:19:13 PM »
Thanks Dusty... do these alternative social media sites work as well or better than a site like ours that's dedicated to our regional coverage? 

I mean lots of factors are involved but I want to get a better understanding so *if* we can do something about it we can have a place to start. Thanks in advance.

Also, didn't have a motorsports forum where fans could discuss racing? Is that still active or were they too impacted by the social media blitz?

I don't know if the forum still exists. I stopped going there because it got too, well, for lack of a better word, dumb. The advantage of facebook is that it can reach a specific audience, for example, there are separate dirt street stock and factory stock pages that cater to Southern Tier racers. I don't know how that could be applied to a site like this.

Right now the most "successful" message board site is probably dirttrackdigest. I believe their board draws the majority of the traffic to the site, but they have columnists, news articles, press releases and a live twitter feed from from various races around the northeast. A race fan can get almost to the minute updates via facebook and dirttrackdigest. And, any discussion can also take place in real time. When I sign on to my computer, I go to facebook, then dirttrackdigest, then here because that's where I've found the information the most relevant to my interests.

I'm a Southern Tier dirt fan primarily, but I do have an interest in asphalt, mostly Bethel, Chemung and Shangri La (when it's open). So I'm going to go where I can get the information I want. Facebook and dirttrackdigest for dirt and here for asphalt.

One possibility would be to get instant (official) results from around the state as soon as possible. If track officials won't cooperate, I know they are quite busy on race night, maybe there are people who would be willing to volunteer to get the results from the track and post them here. On Saturday or Sunday morning I would love to have a place for "one stop shopping" when it comes to complete results.

Racing Discussion / Re: Where are all you race fans?
« on: April 23, 2018, 02:31:44 PM »
Just a question....where are all you folks? Season is getting started....are we not the place to discuss racing in New York any more?

If not, WHY?  Please, lets discuss....

If you are concerned....send PM directly to Admin. Thanks.

I have a feeling that many of the people who used to come here for news have migrated to the various social media sites such as facebook or twitter. All that's left here are those who come back out of habit (myself, for example) or those folks who are resistant to joining one of those sites. Tis a pity, but it is a sign of the times.

Racing Discussion / Re: Holiday week racing schedule
« on: July 01, 2017, 06:00:42 PM »
Accord is running a STSS race on the 3rd.

Racing Discussion / Re: Glen ridge
« on: June 04, 2017, 05:11:28 PM »
I'm not sure what's going on with this track but in my opinion it's complete bull that this track was awarded an imca sanction and skyline had theirs revoked.  By no means is this a slam against any imca supporters of glen ridge but it seems the class is already on the chopping block.  Skyline should get their sanction back it's the best thing for the survival of the class in nys it gives another option for those southern tier drivers on Friday that don't live anywhere near outlaw or the hill.  I know skylines numbers have not been great but with a sanction I think it would recover this season. Just my opinion.

I wish they would sanction any track which requests it, but that's not how they operate. It's my understanding they avoid sanctioning tracks within 100 miles of each other and Outlaw has a sanction and is closer to Skyline than 100 miles. Don't ask me to explain the whole Five Mile Point/Skyline sanctioning deal when they both ran Saturday nights. As far as Glen Ridge is concerned, it makes sense from the perspective of IMCA, it's not near any other track that runs the class so it would reintroduce the class into the Capital Region. As far as I know The Hill doesn't have IMCA sanction so they are in the same boat as Skyline.

Racing Discussion / What Is Your Definition of a "Real" Race Car?
« on: May 25, 2017, 07:05:52 PM »
Over on Dirt Track Digest there is a post that stated that the SpeedSTR's aren't "real race cars"and on a thread here there is a post that mentions "real" race cars as opposed to "junk yard" classes.

I'm just curious as to what, in your opinion, makes a vehicle a "real" race car?

From the New York State Liquor Authority Website:

BYOB, or “Bring Your Own Bottle,” where owners of establishments allow their customers to bring alcoholic beverages to their premises to be consumed on site, is NOT PERMITTED in unlicensed businesses in New York State.  You MUST have a license or permit to sell/serve beer, wine or liquor to the public. Venues without a license or permit may not allow patrons to “bring their own” alcoholic beverages for consumption.  In addition, owners of businesses may not give away alcoholic beverages to their patrons.  Those that do are in violation of the NYS Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

Applicants should be aware that allowing BYOB without a license may jeopardize their chances for approval of their license.

Chemung must have a license because they sell it.

I have no idea what the situation is at Chemung as far as licensing is concerned. It is possible that the promoter/owner doesn't have a liquor license and contracts the sale of alcohol to an entity which does have a license. That is what happened at I-88 Speedway last year. They were served notice by the state of the law that prohibits BYOB and made arrangements with a business which holds a license to sell alcohol at the track. It is also possible that the promoter/owner does have a license.

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