Author Topic: Favoritism at Skyline  (Read 5666 times)

streetstocksponsor

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Favoritism at Skyline
« on: July 02, 2016, 07:11:17 PM »
We need a flagger that is NOT a relative of the Mill's.  2 weeks in row.


phredo

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2016, 08:47:49 AM »
As far as I know, the flagger does not make the decisions. That is the job of the race director.
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Tangletongue

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2016, 12:35:27 PM »
Just my opinion...but... If the race director is making most of the calls, that's a big part of your problem. The race director's job is to keep the show organised, flowing smoothly, and running quickly and efficiently. Most rulebooks, under the procedural rules (which few people read) state that the flagman is in charge of the track. They also usually say that no protest is allowed on the Flagger's decisions. It doesn't say no protest allowed on the race director's decisions. If the race director is running everyhing, as a flagger I would help them wire the track for green, yellow, and red lights, tell the competitors that lap flag and black flag calls will be coming through the one way radio, and walk away. Good race directors (and I've known a few) will not make competition calls unless it comes down to no other choice.


sidebite

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2016, 03:27:43 PM »
You guys do know there have been substitute flagman over the last couple weeks?? main flagger has been out with some family health issues.


streetstocksponsor

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2016, 05:00:39 PM »
Nice try.  The main flagger was back last night and the "fill in" flagger was his brother. 

PEEWEE

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 07:55:04 PM »
Just my opinion...but... If the race director is making most of the calls, that's a big part of your problem. The race director's job is to keep the show organised, flowing smoothly, and running quickly and efficiently. Most rulebooks, under the procedural rules (which few people read) state that the flagman is in charge of the track. They also usually say that no protest is allowed on the Flagger's decisions. It doesn't say no protest allowed on the race director's decisions. If the race director is running everyhing, as a flagger I would help them wire the track for green, yellow, and red lights, tell the competitors that lap flag and black flag calls will be coming through the one way radio, and walk away. Good race directors (and I've known a few) will not make competition calls unless it comes down to no other choice.

there is a guy name jerry that has made a lot at woodhull


Tangletongue

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2016, 08:50:11 AM »
Not interested in hijacking this thread with tales of Woodhull, and unwilling to get in a peeing contest with an old friend, but I sat in that tower for a lot of years and will guarantee it was a lot less than what he was accused of.


thelegend30

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 10:44:16 AM »
I never had a problem with Jerry in my years at Woodhull. Haven't really had many disagreements in general with officials at Woodhull, other than I know they don't like my slow pace on starts/restarts.
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Casper60

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 11:33:11 AM »
Just my opinion...but... If the race director is making most of the calls, that's a big part of your problem. The race director's job is to keep the show organised, flowing smoothly, and running quickly and efficiently. Most rulebooks, under the procedural rules (which few people read) state that the flagman is in charge of the track. They also usually say that no protest is allowed on the Flagger's decisions. It doesn't say no protest allowed on the race director's decisions. If the race director is running everyhing, as a flagger I would help them wire the track for green, yellow, and red lights, tell the competitors that lap flag and black flag calls will be coming through the one way radio, and walk away. Good race directors (and I've known a few) will not make competition calls unless it comes down to no other choice.


I worked with one of the best in the business, and he was responsible for calls on the track. That being said, he talked to the other sets of eyes in the tower, as well as the flagger before making a call in most cases.
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PEEWEE

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2016, 08:06:55 PM »
it is amazing what you hear on a scanner


Tangletongue

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Re: Favoritism at Skyline
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 10:13:43 AM »
Casper, it all boils down to track management preference, which is why I prefaced my post with JMO, and noted why according to the rulebook. I've always felt that there should be one person in charge, not multiple... it reduces confusion and conflict. When I flagged, I told my corner workers to make calls if they were sure of what happened, but the official stance was the call came from me. I chose to act or not on their information. As a race director, I only stepped in if it was blatant, and then tried to word it as to what I saw, not what to do about it... the flagman made the decision to act. There were exceptions, but that was the general procedure. The key is that the crew running the show has to trust each other, and ground rules have to be set before the show. Without knowing the official's preset procedures, I'm sure that on the scanner, it sounded like calls were coming from the tower, but in my experience, the flagger had the final decision on whether to act or not.
The only other point I will make is that if a track official is really trying to be fair and do a good job, the worst feeling in the world is realising you've made a wrong call. Very few opportunities exist for a do-over, and you have to live with it and own it. Consistent bad calls need addressed by management. Occasional mistakes are simply officials being human and should be treated differently. It doesn't make a racer, or conscientious official feel any better about the mistake, but if you're right 95% of the time you're one of the good ones. Good officials and good racers have a love of the sport in common, and they both strive to do their best Everytime they hit the track.